At what point did it look I took it personal? I am really just stating the obvious. Both sides have strong opinions. There is really no reason to assume either side will budge. Please note that I am not a christian that is going to cram their beliefs down other peoples throats. I just say tolerance has to go both ways.
Just look at the posts in this thread already. Who do you think has the tougher argument. Your asking to prove God exists. The whole Christian belief is base on faith. I can't prove God exists. Does that mean you win the argument? If that is what you want than I guess you win.
I didn't attack you. I am really just questioning that this thread would rather have a debate rather than another religion bashing session. Look at the other posters and tell me it won't be like that.
You asked for my thoughts so I will give you this. I am a Christian. I was raised that way but really didn't embrace it till my twenties when I made the decision to get "saved" on my own. I have fallen back on my faith during tough times including fighting in that "holy war" you speak about. There is a lot of solitude in Iraq that gives you so much time to reflect on your life. My religion is important to me and my family. There ya go. Swing away Taiyed Brodels.
I haven't believed in God in over 16 years. It's been almost 6 years since I realized that I was Agnostic. The longer I live on this "fence", the more I realize it isn't a fence as much as it is The Truth As Far As We Know It, and anyone not on this fence is just improvising. Filling in the gaps. Living in an imaginary world for which The Truth does not apply.
Sadly, we still live in a society where there is something corrupt about a person who doesn't have faith. A few years ago, I attempted to explore the possibility of "achieving" faith, and in doing so I asked for help from a friend of mine who was adamantly Christian. She said, "Arriving at faith is something you either do, or you don't do. You can not be on the fence." She asked me if I believed that there was such a thing as "One Million Dollars". Of course I did, and she asked "Well, you've never seen a million dollars, so how do you know it exists?" I said, "because in my lifetime I can count enough bundles of cash to reasonably assume that a million dollars could exist. I can see evidence that a million dollars has been spent. Money is electronic now anyway, and a million dollars can easily be summed up by the federal reserve." Seeing that I was unable to suspend my affinity for critical thought, or perhaps afraid of accidentally thinking critically herself, she abandoned the "project" and ended the conversation. But in the end, when I hung out around her and her Christian friends, I was an outcast of blasphemous proportions. Looked at as somebody "sick", or "doomed".
I had been drinking Blue Moon all night, and I was feeling pretty good. But this topic killed my buzz and made me nauseous.
It sure looks like it; the way christians are ridiculed shows pretty much the "prosecution" in the opposite direction. I, for a change (because I understand how retarded some christians act), an a christian and have a lot of agnostic and atheist friends. I think you have the right to believe or not to believe anything as long as you have a damn stance, which is something I value disregarding of which that is.
I sometimes wish the internet grew older fast enough... or at least matured a bit. Because you know: facts=/=true.
Jordan311 wrote:Jesus was a real person regardless of whether you believe he was the son of god.
So that's like saying "who here believes in Albert Einstein?"
Later
I have to disagree with you. Leaving out the son of god part, Luke is pretty right. There just is no first hand accounts of anyone named Jesus in that area and time. The Albert Einstein analogy doesn't go far because we have physical writings from the man, photographs, film and audio. I am not saying that is exactly what you need to say someone existed. But, by going off the things we have that talk of a Jesus and claim of his existence, we could say Hercules was real with the same kind of evidence. It just isn't that trustworthy.
Jordan311 wrote:Jesus was a real person regardless of whether you believe he was the son of god.
So that's like saying "who here believes in Albert Einstein?"
Later
I have to disagree with you. Leaving out the son of god part, Luke is pretty right. There just is no first hand accounts of anyone named Jesus in that area and time. The Albert Einstein analogy doesn't go far because we have physical writings from the man, photographs, film and audio. I am not saying that is exactly what you need to say someone existed. But, by going off the things we have that talk of a Jesus and claim of his existence, we could say Hercules was real with the same kind of evidence. It just isn't that trustworthy.
thats not what zietgiest says
I think there were plenty of people named Jesus, just not Jesus Christ. Christ, or The Christ meant the anointed one... isn't that what Zeitgeist said?
Deuteronomy 32: They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. 22For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. 23I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. 24They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. 25The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. 26I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: 27Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this. See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. 40For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
