Sam Walker

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$ayzak
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by $ayzak »

wbrycew wrote: I believe that any limitation of freedom is an evil thing. There is nothing worse in the world to me than the idea that I can't just do what I want to do. I should be allowed to live how I want, assuming that I won't screw with anybody else's freedoms. I don't bother people, and I don't want people to bother me. The problem is, people can't be trusted to play by the honor code and not bother each other. Some people can, but not all.
This is a very interesting response. On one hand you desire freedom, on the other hand you don't seem to trust people enough to have their own freedom. You seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to trust the government more than other people in a society. And you're willing to allow them to take away your freedoms in order to protect you from those in society whom you do not trust. How am I doing so far?

That's where government steps in. Government is the necessary evil that has to limit our freedoms in order to make sure the asshats of the world don't mess things up for the people minding their own business. If we didn't have governments in the world, then the rapists and murderers would basically take over. The government's role is to take away some freedom to protect the people, but leave just enough freedom behind that we can still tolerate living.
"Just enough freedom... so that we can tolerate living"... whoa. I could probably tolerate living with no limbs. I could probably tolerate living without 3 out of my 5 senses. I could probably tolerate living in a jail cell the size of a bathroom for the rest of my life. What about having enough freedom to enjoy living?
So that's what I mean. And our government actually does a particularly good job at it. I'm not scared of my government, and I know I'm not one of the guys they're interested in. I go about my partially free life and usually enjoy myself.

Let me reiterate. All laws are evil to me, in every way. If civilization hadn't developed, and humans were still just another animal roaming the planet (albeit a bit smarter than the rest), then we would all just be living our day to day lives in any manner that we saw fit. That is the definition of good and freedom to me; just living life without constraints of society. Civilization has taken us far from that point though, and now there's no going back. So, at this point, government is definitely a necessary evil to help us maintain what freedoms we can still hold on to.
I understand why you think that limiting freedoms are necessary in order to preserve your safety as well as your basic needs. It is definitely important for a civilization to keep it's self in check somehow. Laws, governed by a constitution (the law of the land) classically work very well. These laws begin to fail in serving their purpose, however, when establishments inside or outside the government make special deals that blur the lines drawn by the constitution. Here's something you need to understand: The same people you don't trust in a civilization will do everything they can to get into the government, or work with the government in order to cut themselves special deals. This is classic corruption. And it's happening all around you all the time. This corruption, which happens at the expense of your liberties and your freedom, is perpetuated by the government. It's cyclical and symbiotic. And your role in this corruption is to be docile and complacent. Both entities want you to allow them to manipulate you, and the only way they can do that is by indoctrinating you into thinking that the government, and only the government, can or should provide you with your needs and safety -- which is clearly what you believe.

The constitution is very clear on how to preserve our liberties as well as our safety. We do it ourselves and we do it together in our communities. It's not too difficult, despite what your government wants you to believe. This corruption by the government is practically written into law right over the words of the constitution. If you were allowed to protect yourself from harm or theft without getting sued or thrown in jail, people wouldn't think they could get away with hurting you or taking your belongings (this goes especially for the government but it also applies to other civilians). The government has your sense of self preservation hog tied, tortured, and imprisoned. You make their job really easy because you thank them for taking your freedoms away.

I apologize, but this needs to be repeated:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

What is the opposite of "LIBERTY?" The answer is: SLAVERY.
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Jordan311
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Jordan311 »

+10,000 points to Sayzak.

every time I've ever mocked you for being a "deep thinker" I take it all back, good sir.


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Re: Sam Walker

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jimbo, this is for you







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wbrycew
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by wbrycew »

Fine Sayzak and Jordan, let's start a revolution and overthrow the government. I'm sure it'll work out great. :roll:
You guys are missing the point.

Government isn't the actual problem at all. Government exists to keep civilization intact. That is the problem. The fact that civilization has overrun the planet is the problem. The fact that humans are not meant to exist in civilization, but we're born into without a choice is the problem.

Humans are tribal creatures and any system we have in place to attempt to override that will ultimately fail. Civilization is a crazy concept that began conquering the world starting roughly 10,000 years ago, and it has finally conquered nearly every tribe left on the earth. It either killed or converted all people in it's path. Nobody had a choice; either join, become a slave, or die. We aren't meant to live like this, but we have no choice. We don't choose civilization, it is chosen for us simply because we were born within the imaginary lines of civilization.

So, this is why I disagree with people that are anti-government. You're missing the root problem. Civilization is the problem. Government is simply a program to keep civilization alive.

The sad thing about this problem is that it's almost impossible to resolve. We can't go back now. Tribal life isn't an option for us. Civilization is so ingrained into our brains from birth that most people today don't realize that they're no different from the tribes of humans that wandered the earth for millions of years before civilization took over. We go as far as creating fairly tales to tell our children about how none of that ever happened, and man was created as a civilized creature, and all other animals of the world are beneath us. For this reason, religion is like government. Just another tool to keep civilization alive.

Think about the term "uncivilized". It's considered an insult. That's just ridiculous.
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Jordan311
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Re: Sam Walker

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wbrycew wrote:Fine Sayzak and Jordan, let's start a revolution and overthrow the government. I'm sure it'll work out great. :roll:
You guys are missing the point.

Government isn't the actual problem at all. Government exists to keep civilization intact. That is the problem. The fact that civilization has overrun the planet is the problem. The fact that humans are not meant to exist in civilization, but we're born into without a choice is the problem.

Humans are tribal creatures and any system we have in place to attempt to override that will ultimately fail. Civilization is a crazy concept that began conquering the world starting roughly 10,000 years ago, and it has finally conquered nearly every tribe left on the earth. It either killed or converted all people in it's path. Nobody had a choice; either join, become a slave, or die. We aren't meant to live like this, but we have no choice. We don't choose civilization, it is chosen for us simply because we were born within the imaginary lines of civilization.

So, this is why I disagree with people that are anti-government. You're missing the root problem. Civilization is the problem. Government is simply a program to keep civilization alive.

The sad thing about this problem is that it's almost impossible to resolve. We can't go back now. Tribal life isn't an option for us. Civilization is so ingrained into our brains from birth that most people today don't realize that they're no different from the tribes of humans that wandered the earth for millions of years before civilization took over. We go as far as creating fairly tales to tell our children about how none of that ever happened, and man was created as a civilized creature, and all other animals of the world are beneath us. For this reason, religion is like government. Just another tool to keep civilization alive.

Think about the term "uncivilized". It's considered an insult. That's just ridiculous.

:happy3: :shock: :? :tard: :evil4: :lol: :lol: :lol:


bwhaahahahah dude. are you serious?? That was your argument? that was the most retardedly dumb post I've ever read in my life. I can't believe I've actually been arguing with you for the last 2 pages. Yeah lets all go live in caves and club wild mammoths.
ahahah jesus christ. what a dumb shit.



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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Cerpin Taxt »

Bryce don't worry I got this once covered.


If you don't have anything valuable to add to the thread don't post.....



BTW Bryce thats directed towards you,now scurry on and post at your Pro-Tribal Life forums where people might give a shit about your opinions
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by wbrycew »

KyleRayner wrote:give it up, there is no turning people's beliefs on stuff like this. same as religion topic. when people argue over things that can't be proven one way or the other, they will never relent. especially when the people believe themselves to be in the know about something that everybody else is too dumb to realize. see mac users, also.
Yeah, I agree with what you're saying here. Sayzak and Jordan are in the know and we're just the sheeple.
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Re: Sam Walker

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Also do you know where the Regal Fenway is? I bet you would direct me towards a bed bath and beyond you fag
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Jordan311 »

hey guys lets all get our loin-cloths on and go dance around the fire


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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Cerpin Taxt »

Jordan311 wrote:hey guys lets all get our loin-cloths on and go dance around the fire


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Only if we can all be Quasi-Anti Government
Who brought me here..............?
Forsaken depraved and wrought with fear


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Re: Sam Walker

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no no no. he's anti-civilization. can't you see he just took the rabbit hole so much deeper

he's a regular keanu reaves this guy

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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Cerpin Taxt »

oh that must be all those years of sitting alone in the cafeteria at school
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Re: Sam Walker

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he didn't go to school. that's too civilized for his liking


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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Jordan311 »


hey look, I found bryce's yearbook picture




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Re: Sam Walker

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good thing the guy who doesn't like civilizations isn't from the state with greatest population density.....its only number two. Everyone knows the first key to having a successful noncivilization is having a higher percentage of neighbors than 48 other states
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by wbrycew »

That's how you guys respond? Hmmm. I guess I've wasted my time completely. If you disagree with what I've said, please point out what you disagree with. My points are valid. Try me.

Believe me, I can understand that you'd immediately throw the concept out the window, because most people would. As I mentioned earlier, most people just can't conceptualize the idea that we aren't supposed to live the way we do. We were all born into civilized households. Think about that. Really think about it. Just because you were born that way, do you really think that means that's how it's supposed to happen? It's crazy and cocky to assume that our way of life is the correct way of life.

Are you aware that civilization is only thousands of years old, but humanity is millions of years old. It's awfully high and mighty of you to immediately disregard those millions of years.

But whatever. There's nothing anyone can do about it regardless. It's just a good thought experiment.

Also, thanks for helping to prove my point with the negative connotation at the caveman picture.
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Re: Sam Walker

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On second thought, I'm just surprised that you guys would have such a bad response to this. You don't like to think about why you're here? You don't ponder? You don't think about alternative outcomes?

That's boring.

Childish insults? Really? You guys are weak.
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Jordan311
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by Jordan311 »

obama good.
civilization bad.

ug ug.


me want wife. me club woman over head. drag by hair back to cave. ug ug.


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wbrycew
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by wbrycew »

Jordan311 wrote:he didn't go to school. that's too civilized for his liking


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You're right actually. I think school is pretty awful in general. I've learned a lot more on my own out of curiosity than I did at school. In retrospect, elementary school and high school felt like a factory to me.

College is pretty decent though.
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wbrycew
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Re: Sam Walker

Post by wbrycew »

Ok, well clearly I no longer care about what you have to say Jordan. You've proven yourself. I await Sayzak's reply.
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