Now let's travel back through the hazy mists of time to over six years and seven months ago…
311Baybee wrote:i think you guys are overreacting... The fact that you guys are still holding grudges against the bannings from 311forums astounds me. basically, you joined a site with terms and conditions. you didnt abide by them.
I appreciate Jordan's honesty on this point. Argumentative people tend to do get in arguments a lot, and that tends to be frowned upon on websites with terms and conditions indicating they attempt to maintain a positive atmosphere for everyone. But it is true that arguing a point of view in of itself isn’t the issue, just what it can lead to (and did).Jordan311 wrote:I got into an argument in a topic
Since I deleted the thread, it was his word against mine. He's free to say anything he wants (and did), so here is my side, for the record…Jordan311 wrote:I got into an argument in a topic where Will Mindspin(a moderator) had disrespected me, so it's no surprise that I talked right back. Of course, Will did a great job of covering his tracks and deleting the topic so Smoke(the only one with banning powers) couldn't read the topic or even recover it, to see what the argument was all about. Will requested my banning and since I assume Smoke had no choice but to side with the moderator on it, he's banned me for a week.
I don't remember what the argument was about or who Jordan was having it with, but I had read a back-and-forth between him and someone else he didn't agree with on something. Jordan resorted to personal attacks against that person. To be civilized when debating a point, you only attack the point you disagree with, not the person. Jordan made it personal, and I called Jordan out on it in the thread with a warning to not continue to do that. My first post about it was very nice and friendly. It had no disrespect whatsoever, unlike some of his posts in the thread. My first post in reply was very carefully worded to only criticize Jordan‘s behavior in the topic, not disrespect him as a person. At that point, I was not being hypocritical. But then Jordan started going off on me and how it was ok to be a dick in an argument on the internet and how I'm just a pussy, blah, blah, blah.Jordan311 wrote:
That was the point that, based on the terms and conditions, I was supposed to move the thread backstage where Smoke could have reviewed it and then banned Jordan with the evidence of him disrespecting someone else, and then a moderator. But that is where I first failed. I understood Smoke's sensible policy, but I didn't follow it. I continued responding to Jordan. And him to me. I let him bring me down to his level. Every time I posted resulted in a reply from Jordan that further publicly disrespected a moderator, so in anger, I just deleted the thread. But I wasn't just angry at Jordan for name-calling. I was just as angry at myself. And so Smoke's 2nd policy I failed to follow was deleting the thread.
But let's be real here. Even if I had not deleted the thread, there would have been no difference in the end result. Jordan did violate the terms and conditions and was often behaving like an immature bratty douche to people he disagreed with on a site that was supposed to be about positivity. And I still had violated the rules myself by responding to Jordan after his first personal attack on me. Smoke would have still banned us both for one week.
Since I had deleted the thread, I deserved to be banned for that. But I honestly admitted to Smoke how I had replied to Jordan - There was no “cover-up” (lol). And Jordan was still banned for one week because Jordan had a history on 311 Heaven of not only being argumentative, but also making it personal. He had gotten warnings from other mods before this happened. And other people who had posted on that thread or had read that thread (before it had been deleted) had PMed Smoke in my defense and testified that Jordan was being argumentative with others, and that he had made it personal, even before I had got there. Jordan deserved to be banned too. One week? I hope that didn't hurt Jordan's feelings. It was just a band forum. I agree with Ally that many of you overreacted.
I had no problem with Smoke banning me. Smoke was obviously not siding with the moderator. I, a moderator, got banned for the same exact week Jordan. That was fair and impartial. Jordan started it, but I admitted it went further and shouldn’t have. I’ve come completely clean and honest about my part in the incident. If I was going to lie, then I would certainly put a lot better “spin” on my part in it.
Jordan was being rude in that case, and others. There were plenty of threads that were not deleted that proved that. The rules of that board said you couldn't call people names. It’s not only rude - It’s childish. Jordan could be an antagonistic punk at times back then (but he wasn’t the only one).midnightangel wrote:stewie says you got banned for being rude.... wtf?
Funny that you say that, because that is exactly what happened, but in reverse. You disrespected someone else first by switching from attacking their point to attacking the person. Then when I respectfully warned you to stop, you disrespected me too. And then I was the one who gave it “back” to you (but shouldn’t have as a Moderator). Hopefully you don’t still don’t feel like you did in 2005, but this comes across like you feel it is ok for you to be disrespectful to people first (and second) and start the cycle. Then and still now, I NEVER disrespect people first.Jordan311 wrote:If someone disrespects me, I'm gonna give it straight to them right back. Moderator, or not.
It is true. I remember that. But why would I have had any reason to PM you? People that think they never do anything wrong never start at the beginning…Jordan311 wrote:It is true that I had been PMed about certain issues almst a month ago by Will
I doubt that, but I am sorry that you felt that way. And again, I never would have had any reason to PM you in the first place if you hadn’t been disrespectful to others publicly on the forum anyway. PMs are where any disrespect should have stayed on that site, not out on the open.Jordan311 wrote:but the manner in which he talked to me showed much disrespect
Anyone who argues a lot and then inevitably starts personally degrading people for their opinions that you disagree with IS “negative“. And you are a “311 fan“.Jordan311 wrote:he claimed I was a "negative 311 fan“
That was a little attempted reverse psychology. From the way you behaved, I thought you were just some high school kid who might react positively to that. I had hoped that you would prove me wrong and stop being so negative to others.Jordan311 wrote:he… told me that I'm eaily the most negative person on the boards, as well as told me flat-out that he didn't believe I would be able to make the change necessary for me to be able to stay on the foums.
Good, I‘m glad to read you don’t agree with accusations of being negative. That’s awesome. If you act positive then those accusations become false. But it is easy to just say you are not being negative. The proof is in the pudding. Act positive to others and no one will have reason to ever call you negative.Jordan311 wrote:Of course, all of these accusations pissed me off, because I certainly don't agree with any of them.
So false! I never had a negative grudge, as I instead had positive hope at that point that your antagonistic behavior on the boards would stop and you would stop disrespecting others by rude, childish name-calling. At the time I admit I was frustrated by your ongoing behavior on the board, but it wasn’t personal. Until that thread I had deleted, you were never negative to me. You had never publicly disrespected me before that. I had only observed you being negative to others before that point.Jordan311 wrote:So I guess ever since, he's held a grudge, and this is how it ended up.
And after my ban was lifted, I immediately went back to the board the first thing I posted was a public apology to you, and everyone else for me taking a band forum so seriously and trying to enforce my beliefs of how civilized people should behave there. I had realized in my week off that I didn’t have to put up with all the negativity on the boards because I didn’t have to go to that site and be subjected to it if I didn’t want to.
I had no grudge then, and I still don’t to this day. I’ve been on this site since 2009 and have I ever said one thing negative to you? Have I ever PMed you? No. The past is the past and I’m happy to move forward.
Actually, the week off from the 311 Heaven forum during my ban gave me a lot of much-needed personal perspective because it really made me think hard about my personal priorities in my own life. I started to come to terms with the fact that I was suffering from a severe drug addiction at that point. I didn’t only quit being a 311 forum moderator. I also went clean. Been sober for over 6 years now. Oh, I can still drink a couple beers here and there, but alcohol never was my thing. So it always was and still is easy for me to not over-do alcohol. Later that year (2005) I met the woman who is now my wife in a circumstance that never would have occurred if I hadn’t quit dope (and she’s never touched the stuff so no temptations at home). Now I’m married and have the most awesome, wonderful son I could have dreamed of having. My life is so blessed now without my unhealthy addiction.
So thank you Jordan and Smoke for your unintentional roles in helping me get my life back on track! I am grateful for the positive outcome it ended up having in my life.
If you meant my one week ban, then yes, I am very glad I got that too...Jordan311 wrote:I'm glad that Will Mindspin, and Kevin (somewhat) got their dues
I was never banned from being a moderator. I voluntarily quit. Smoke and Ally can back that up. I no longer wanted to be a moderator (and be responsible for moving threads backstage that violated the terms and conditions of the site). Smoke was very cordial about it and made it clear that I was welcome to continue being a moderator, but he respected my decision if I didn’t want to be. After that I didn’t want to even visit the site much because at that point I was better off leaving it in the past, along with my drug problem. And then one day the site was gone and I didn’t even know that it was going to be closed. I still to this day have never found out what happened with the 311 Heaven forums, but I haven’t lost any sleep over it.DoYouRight311 wrote:yes a few of the moderators were screwing around and deleting certain posts and smoke gets blamed for his hard work on 311heaven and smoke banned will and kevin from being a moderator for not discussing certain thing with him breaking the rules or some shit
And that thread with Jordan was the only thread I ever deleted. I was not aware of other moderators deleting any threads, if that really happened. Perhaps that happened after I quit.