a high set analysis

[FreezeTime21]

like it was said earlier, radio friendly doesnt mean that they will have radio success. learn that, accept that. no one also said that they have successfully made radio friendly music. it could easily be said that they have attempted to make music that is radio friendly have failed at though.

(dont attack me by questioning my 311 fanhood, just a heads up cause i actually like 311 still)

Ok, I can work with this at least and somewhat agree with it. Also glad to see you still like them too. For the record though, I don't think 311 is "radio friendly" or ever will be. Maybe they did try it and failed, cus it's not them. But for those of you who love this little phrase, here's something to think about. The Blue Album, Soundsystem, and Transistor all receive the most, though little, radio time that 311 does get. To me, their best 3 albums. Much more than Uplifter, DTOM, and Evolver will ever get. So if you want use that stupid term then go ahead and use it on those albums, not Uplifter. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. But to say it's too catchy and "radio friendly," is just flat out wrong.

[Jorge]

Jorge...you are one of the most well spoken people on here

but dude...get off the hate train for awhile

we know you don't like 311 as much anymore

I try not to just immediately start hating, but I often feel obligated to argue my stance when people like Freezetime think their argument is superior. Mah fault.

In this current situation, I continually feel the need to clarify my thoughts because he obviously doesn't get it.

I still like them, though. In fact, I was buggin' out hard to Transistor on the drive down here to Florida. It is still easily in my top 3 favorite albums of all time.

You got your opinion. But the truth is the last two albums haven't gotten much time on the radio at all. While the blue album and even come original from Soundsystem get the most plays. I have heard hey you twice on the radio since the release, and DTOM about the same when it came out. So if 311 is radio friendly now, then why aren't they on the radio...at all?

To answer your question, I would say you don't know what you are talking about, because according to Wikipedia, ""Hey You" is a song written and recorded by American rock band 311. It is the first single from the group's ninth studio album, Uplifter. The single was released through Volcano Entertainment on April 10, 2009. It was received generally well and became their eighth top-five hit on the Billboard Hot Modern Rock Tracks chart." Creatures reached #3 on the same chart while Don't Tread on Me reached #2, so to say that those album didn't get much radio time at all is kind of a stretch.

And again, radio friendly doesn't equate success on the radio. Think of it this way: Would you expect to hear Animal Collective's early work or Summer Clothes off of Merriweather Post Pavilion on the radio?

It just seems contradicting when you say that it's ok for the Blue Album to have radio friendly songs and they're cool, but the Uplifter "radio friendly" songs are not cool because they're older?

In what way?

[coast2coast]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

[Tehshewz]

Jorge your last few post have changed the way i think about you.
I always thought you were a hater. The "i only like old school" if you will.
But i completely understand why you are so hard on the things you like.

[Rant]
Uplifter is my favorite album atm.
It has some faults. Some shine more then others.
But 311 needs hard asses like that. They need the motivation to prove us wrong. They got lazy with DTOM and they got what they asked for.

Now as for "radio friendly".
For me its just a song that is easy to listen to/sing. It needs to be popy, fun, and catchy. radio friendly songs are for the majoirty of the population. Mostly idiots that watch mtv and think everything on it is real and completely not staged and pre rehersed.

To put it in a nut shell. Easly consumable.

That is what 311 is doing with there tours, they want more fans.
They just want to be loved like a ugly puppy.
Thats understandable. But i dont think they realize that most of their money and time alive is from "US" the underground ugly dog of a 311 fan.
People love us ( and understand what we are about) or hate us (because its cool and we cannot take the time and listen)

311 is just going though a "mid life crisis" imo.
[/Rant]

[311junkee]

Jorge...you are one of the most well spoken people on here

but dude...get off the hate train for awhile

we know you don't like 311 as much anymore

I try not to just immediately start hating, but I often feel obligated to argue my stance when people like Freezetime think their argument is superior. Mah fault.

In this current situation, I continually feel the need to clarify my thoughts because he obviously doesn't get it.

I still like them, though. In fact, I was buggin' out hard to Transistor on the drive down here to Florida. It is still easily in my top 3 favorite albums of all time.[/quote]

I understand you wanting to get through to him (although it seems very unlikely). I agree with everything you've said thus far.

It seems like you haven't really said anything positive about uplifter and when you do it's followed by a negative.

What do you think are some high points for the album? don't mention one thing you don't like, just list the good

i'm very curious

[FreezeTime21]

You got your opinion. But the truth is the last two albums haven't gotten much time on the radio at all. While the blue album and even come original from Soundsystem get the most plays. I have heard hey you twice on the radio since the release, and DTOM about the same when it came out. So if 311 is radio friendly now, then why aren't they on the radio...at all?

To answer your question, I would say you don't know what you are talking about, because according to Wikipedia, ""Hey You" is a song written and recorded by American rock band 311. It is the first single from the group's ninth studio album, Uplifter. The single was released through Volcano Entertainment on April 10, 2009. It was received generally well and became their eighth top-five hit on the Billboard Hot Modern Rock Tracks chart." Creatures reached #3 on the same chart while Don't Tread on Me reached #2, so to say that those album didn't get much radio time at all is kind of a stretch.

And again, radio friendly doesn't equate success on the radio. Think of it this way: Would you expect to hear Animal Collective's early work or Summer Clothes off of Merriweather Post Pavilion on the radio?

It just seems contradicting when you say that it's ok for the Blue Album to have radio friendly songs and they're cool, but the Uplifter "radio friendly" songs are not cool because they're older?

In what way?[/quote]

You're exactly right, Hey You is their first single off of the album. I think the billboard stuff is about its debut though? Could be wrong, but anyway...I wasn't trying to say DTOM and Uplifter don't have radio singles, I was saying they don't get played. After Hey You's debut on the radio, it has died off and become obsolete; same as DTOM. Songs from the blue album are the only ones still being played on the radio, with an occasional Beautiful Disaster and Come Original, and Amber. I'm just saying that if you wanna use the term "radio friendly" then use it right. The Blue Album is much more "radio friendly" than Uplifter, or any of 311's newer albums. If you think the new stuff is too "radio friendly" and poppy, just understand that the Blue Album is the most radio played album. It is also the most mainstream, selling over 3 million copies. I love the Blue Album, but still wouldn't consider it "radio.." Good songs that ppl dig I guess.

I have no idea who ANimal Collective is so I would never expect any of their work to be on the radio

I guess we just have a different opinion of the term. When I think of "radio friendly," i think of mainstream success...like being on the radio and MTV and all that stuff you mentioned. 311 has never been that type of band and I don't see it ever happening. Hey You, and It's Alright I can see as catchy songs that more casual fans would like, but I don't think that should give the entire cd a rap of being "radio friendly." With songs like India Ink, NEs, Jackpot, Something..., Get Down, Sun Come Through...etc. I just don't think it's fair to write off 311's newer work as "radio friendly." Because the truth is, each album might get one or two songs debuted on the radio, then they just die off besides the tracks I mentioned earlier...

[flyersfan900]

Hey You, and It's Alright I can see as catchy songs that more casual fans would like, but I don't think that should give the entire cd a rap of being "radio friendly." With songs like India Ink, NEs, Jackpot, Something..., Get Down, Sun Come Through...etc. I just don't think it's fair to write off 311's newer work as "radio friendly." Because the truth is, each album might get one or two songs debuted on the radio, then they just die off besides the tracks I mentioned earlier...

I don't know why I'm jumping in here, but I would consider NES, Jackpot, Something out of nothing, and possibly india ink to be pretty radio friendly. They are easily digestable songs with choruses you can sing along to. This fact has no bearing on how good those songs are, however.

[Nate]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

I'd bet that wikipedia is a lot more accurate than any history book you've used in school

[FreezeTime21]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

I'd bet that wikipedia is a lot more accurate than any history book you've used in school

Another ignorant post. Come to think of it, I haven't seen you post anything on here yet that has come close to resemble anything intelligent.

[$lmjimy311]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

actually wiki is pretty reliable, and if there is any question in it, it generally says at the top that the stuff does not have a reference and its reliability is questionable

[Jorge]

You're exactly right, Hey You is their first single off of the album. I think the billboard stuff is about its debut though? Could be wrong, but anyway...I wasn't trying to say DTOM and Uplifter don't have radio singles, I was saying they don't get played. After Hey You's debut on the radio, it has died off and become obsolete; same as DTOM. Songs from the blue album are the only ones still being played on the radio, with an occasional Beautiful Disaster and Come Original, and Amber. I'm just saying that if you wanna use the term "radio friendly" then use it right. The Blue Album is much more "radio friendly" than Uplifter, or any of 311's newer albums. If you think the new stuff is too "radio friendly" and poppy, just understand that the Blue Album is the most radio played album. It is also the most mainstream, selling over 3 million copies. I love the Blue Album, but still wouldn't consider it "radio.." Good songs that ppl dig I guess.

I have no idea who ANimal Collective is so I would never expect any of their work to be on the radio

I guess we just have a different opinion of the term. When I think of "radio friendly," i think of mainstream success...like being on the radio and MTV and all that stuff you mentioned. 311 has never been that type of band and I don't see it ever happening. Hey You, and It's Alright I can see as catchy songs that more casual fans would like, but I don't think that should give the entire cd a rap of being "radio friendly." With songs like India Ink, NEs, Jackpot, Something..., Get Down, Sun Come Through...etc. I just don't think it's fair to write off 311's newer work as "radio friendly." Because the truth is, each album might get one or two songs debuted on the radio, then they just die off besides the tracks I mentioned earlier...

Wow, are you serious? Have you not read anything I've said? Do you not know the history of this band at all? 311 was an MTV band back when MTV was reliable. Blue album went triple platinum. TRIPLE PLATINUM! They were on the radio all the time. The reason that song is played more than any other is because it is essential part of 90's culture.

I'm not even going to argue with you anymore. You are obviously stubborn and ignorant when it comes to this argument.

I understand you wanting to get through to him (although it seems very unlikely). I agree with everything you've said thus far.

It seems like you haven't really said anything positive about uplifter and when you do it's followed by a negative.

What do you think are some high points for the album? don't mention one thing you don't like, just list the good

i'm very curious

Too Much Too Fast is a great pop song. Very well executed, catchy, and an overall different sound from the band. It's Alright is well catchy and P-Nut's breakdown is dope. I could definitely listen to more of that. Tim's riff on the chorus of Golden Sunlight is pretty solid, especially at the point when Nick says "the songs and the flowers" (I can't remember the lyrics for the first verse off the top of my head). It's just so tasty. Sun Comes Through is classic new 311; reminds me of how I felt listening to Evolver when it came out.

Those are the main highlights that I remember as highlights of the record for me. There are more moments that I like, but are overshadowed others that I loathe. Like Nick in the breakdown of It's Alright. That is seriously some of the dumbest shit I've heard and I feel embarrassed when I listen to it. But damnit, the Nut.

[FreezeTime21]

I'm just saying that if you wanna use the term "radio friendly" then use it right. The Blue Album is much more "radio friendly" than Uplifter, or any of 311's newer albums. If you think the new stuff is too "radio friendly" and poppy, just understand that the Blue Album is the most radio played album. It is also the most mainstream, selling over 3 million copies.



Wow, are you serious? Have you not read anything I've said? Do you not know the history of this band at all? 311 was an MTV band back when MTV was reliable. Blue album went triple platinum. TRIPLE PLATINUM! They were on the radio all the time. The reason that song is played more than any other is because it is essential part of 90's culture.


You just restated everything I said and that makes me ignorant?

[coast2coast]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

I'd bet that wikipedia is a lot more accurate than any history book you've used in school

Show me one professor that will accept wikipedia as a reference and I'll eat crow.

[coast2coast]

I'm just saying that if you wanna use the term "radio friendly" then use it right. The Blue Album is much more "radio friendly" than Uplifter, or any of 311's newer albums. If you think the new stuff is too "radio friendly" and poppy, just understand that the Blue Album is the most radio played album. It is also the most mainstream, selling over 3 million copies.



Wow, are you serious? Have you not read anything I've said? Do you not know the history of this band at all? 311 was an MTV band back when MTV was reliable. Blue album went triple platinum. TRIPLE PLATINUM! They were on the radio all the time. The reason that song is played more than any other is because it is essential part of 90's culture.


You just restated everything I said and that makes me ignorant?

LMAO this is a circular argument.

The overall summary of this argument is to come to some consensus of the term radio friendly. Too sit and bash each other over a term that can be interpreted many different ways. Jorge when you keep telling somebody they completely don' get what the term means you are coming off as a little arrogant. In fact their is a general arrogance to most of what you post on here. For whatever reason people on these boards take what you say as the gospel. I just think you try to put some music "buzzwords into a small paragraph" and try to come off as some sort of musical intellect. You have contradicted yourself a few times on here as I have stated in another post. We go round and round and this last post sums it up. You basically just restated Freezetime21 with different and ended up agreeing with him.

Ultimately who gives a crap, 311 has always cut a couple of singles and they usually die within a month or two. Music has some lasting power on some radio stations that appreciate their sound from he mid 90's. My lasting though is that I don't think 311 is blatently trying to produce radio friendly music. I do believe that they took a look at the album as a whole and selected Hey You and It's Alright as singles because they would be the easiest to be accepted by mainstream media and alt rock radio stations.

My last take on this. The overall tone and message of 311's music has changed after soundsystem. If the lyrics relating to love replace songs about weed then that is fine by me. At least I don't think they are trying to be badass posers with the songs they are singing now.

[FreezeTime21]

LMAO this is a circular argument.

The overall summary of this argument is to come to some consensus of the term radio friendly. Too sit and bash each other over a term that can be interpreted many different ways. Jorge when you keep telling somebody they completely don' get what the term means you are coming off as a little arrogant. In fact their is a general arrogance to most of what you post on here. For whatever reason people on these boards take what you say as the gospel. I just think you try to put some music "buzzwords into a small paragraph" and try to come off as some sort of musical intellect. You have contradicted yourself a few times on here as I have stated in another post. We go round and round and this last post sums it up. You basically just restated Freezetime21 with different and ended up agreeing with him.

Ultimately who gives a crap, 311 has always cut a couple of singles and they usually die within a month or two. Music has some lasting power on some radio stations that appreciate their sound from he mid 90's. My lasting though is that I don't think 311 is blatently trying to produce radio friendly music. I do believe that they took a look at the album as a whole and selected Hey You and It's Alright as singles because they would be the easiest to be accepted by mainstream media and alt rock radio stations.

My last take on this. The overall tone and message of 311's music has changed after soundsystem. If the lyrics relating to love replace songs about weed then that is fine by me. At least I don't think they are trying to be badass posers with the songs they are singing now.[/quote]

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better...

[$lmjimy311]

In all fairness using wikipedia as a research tool for anything is potentially unreliable.

I'd bet that wikipedia is a lot more accurate than any history book you've used in school

Show me one professor that will accept wikipedia as a reference and I'll eat crow.

John C. Kuzenski
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkuzens/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ps 205 - law and justice
accredited lawyer in north carolina and washington dc.

part of his course pack was actually print outs from wikipedia.

the reason its a credible source, is because a lot of, if not the vast majority, of articles, have references, so if you wanted you could use the article as a reference...for your references (which is what i tend to do when a professor wont allow wiki as a source.) wiki is just a place that compiles all the information for you in a nice, neat and organized package.

[Element]

THE DAY WE TURN POP THE SHOW WILL STOP

[Nate]

THE DAY WE TURN POP THE SHOW WILL STOP

[Jorge]

You have contradicted yourself a few times on here as I have stated in another post. We go round and round and this last post sums it up. You basically just restated Freezetime21 with different and ended up agreeing with him.

Show me in quotes. I'll admit my faults.

And yes, I am arrogant in my posts. I feel I have spent enough time listening and thinking about enough different styles of music to think I have an opinion most others don't. I don't think I am better than anyone as a person by any means. I just feel I have experienced more than most (not all). If it offends you, eat a dick. I could care less about what folk an internet forum think about me, especially people who don't know what they are talking about.

[Jordan311]

It's "Couldn't" care less.


fyi..




Later