a high set analysis

[FreezeTime21]

haha. No need for everyone one to rally to his defense. I'm sure Jorge is cool. I've seen his other posts and quite frankly I would really enjoy discussing some of the stuff he has a problem with regarding the new cd and tour. Jorge I just wish you would elaborate sometimes about the stuff you are talking about. I know I am guilty too of just rattling off a one line response especially if I'm tired.

You said there were other moments of good music in most of the songs but apparantly they fall short as a whole. If you get the time maybe we could go song by song and kind of break it down. I would really enjoy something like that and I think it could produce some decent conversation as the boards seem kind of slow these days.

Second: What do you mean by "radio like arrangements" on the 09 tour. Are you saying it was basically a greatest hits tour or does their setlist fall in the category of "radio friendly."

P.S. I'm just busting your balls dude I know how people get about their favorite band but I just kind of give them a bye because I don't want to criticize to the point where I don't enjoy anything.

I actually know a thing or two about music, playing practically my whole life, and I don't really get the letdown thing he was talking about either? I think uplifter has some of the coolest breakdowns and bridge's that we've heard in a while from them (It's Alright, India Ink, Golden sunlight ending, NES). I really like Mahoney's solo work on the album too, really good stuff. And the whole "radio friendly" wrap is complete BS and it pisses me off. 311 has never been and never will be a "radio friendly" band. They throw out a single or two from each album and they usually get practically no radio time. It's just a stupid phrase used to sound cool if someone doesn't like a song. You either like a song or you don't. The album has a great mix for all types of 311 fans. I thought it sounded great live too. It was nice seeing a new opener (NES) and its always cool to hear the new ones live.

[coast2coast]

Dude, thank you. The term "radio friendly" drives me completely nuts. 311 has been on the fringe of mainstream at the most. They get their single to spin on the radio for a month or two and thats about it. They have established their legacy through a strong underground fanbase and energized live concerts.

[Nate]

lol if you think 311 aren't radio friendly then you know very little about music

[coast2coast]

I'm probably 10 years older than you judging by the fact that the picture of your girlfriend looks like a Jonas brother.

311 has never been cycled through radio stations dating back to at least 1996 which was about when I got into them. Is this really even up for debate?

[FreezeTime21]

I'm probably 10 years older than you judging by the fact that the picture of your girlfriend looks like a Jonas brother.

311 has never been cycled through radio stations dating back to at least 1996 which was about when I got into them. Is this really even up for debate?

LMAO. Yea isn't it past your bedtime assblaster? 311 has never been "radio friendly." I've heard Hey You one time since Uplifter has been released. And you couldn't hold my jockstrap when it comes to music knowledge. Peace.

[Jorge]

Coast, I'll talk in depth at a later date, because I am preparing to leave for Florida right now.

Freeze Time, you misunderstand the idea of radio friendly. Radio friendly DOESN'T mean successful. Radio friendly is a term used towards songs and bands that are easily digestible in the sense that their song structure is relatively simple (common example: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus), the lyrics are easily relatable (such as love, partying, pain, etc.), and the music is generally overshadowed by the vocals (no real long "jams", solos, or general instrumentation absent of vocals). For example, Transistor is easily 311's least radio friendly album. There are instrumental tracks, tracks that begin with guitar and gradually build into the verse over a considerable amount of time (too much for the average listener to continue paying attention to), and songs about stranger subjects. Granted, their are radio friendly tracks on the record, which by no means is wrong, but ultimately, the record really shows a mature side to 311 as a band.

That's all I have the time to talk about. I'll try to eleborate further in the week, but I might not have internet, and I will definitely be spending a tremendous time on the beach.

[Nate]

Good point you kids just made. 311 makes radio-friendly music that the radio won't even play

[Jordan311]

The thought and styles I kick are from a random hat pick.
That's why most radio will never play this tell 'em again

[flyersfan900]

It's funny that lyric comes from the blue album which got pretty good radio play

[FreezeTime21]

Coast, I'll talk in depth at a later date, because I am preparing to leave for Florida right now.

Freeze Time, you misunderstand the idea of radio friendly. Radio friendly DOESN'T mean successful. Radio friendly is a term used towards songs and bands that are easily digestible in the sense that their song structure is relatively simple (common example: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus), the lyrics are easily relatable (such as love, partying, pain, etc.), and the music is generally overshadowed by the vocals (no real long "jams", solos, or general instrumentation absent of vocals). For example, Transistor is easily 311's least radio friendly album. There are instrumental tracks, tracks that begin with guitar and gradually build into the verse over a considerable amount of time (too much for the average listener to continue paying attention to), and songs about stranger subjects. Granted, their are radio friendly tracks on the record, which by no means is wrong, but ultimately, the record really shows a mature side to 311 as a band.

That's all I have the time to talk about. I'll try to eleborate further in the week, but I might not have internet, and I will definitely be spending a tremendous time on the beach.

I don't misunderstand the term "radio friendly." And actually, yea, it kind of does go hand in hand with success. It's not like I could write a crappy song and take it to the local DJ for some airtime. In order for songs to get played over and over again on the radio, they have to be successful because ppl have to call in and request them. Now 311 still has success even though they don't get much radio time because of touring and loyal fans. But to say Uplifter is "radio friendly," and has a bunch of letdowns due to song structure is far from the truth. The music quality is there man. No jams/solos? Last time I checked there is one in It's Alright, Mix it Up, Golden SUnlight has a unexpected breakdown at the end, NES, Daisy Cutter, Two Drops, How Long, Golden Sunlight...If you don't like it, no problem, but blaming it on being too "radio friendly" and having bad structure is way off. THe Blue Album gets the most radio time, in my area anyway, of all the albums and I haven't heard you knock that one yet? If that's the case then according to you, that is their worst CD because it is too "radio friendly." Sorry man, just ain't buyin what you're sellin.

[coast2coast]

This.

Simply put, many people on these boards are "singles haters" mainly because I think it's the popular thing to do. Everybody wants to prove their fanhood by citing b-sides and pre music tracks as their favorites. I just find it strange that aside from Transistor 311 music could all be considered radio friendly if we are going to use Jorge's criteria. Even then their are many "radio friendly" tracks on that album too.

Every album kind of has the same mix so to clump uplifter as a radio friendly album is kind of redundant. There almost seems to be a formula 311 uses.

It seems like there are 4 or 5 tracks aimed at appeasing the diehards. (whether they are successfull at this is debatable) Maybe two songs that will receive moderate playtime. The rest of the albums kind of reflect the bands attempt at evolving their sounds. I know this is a pretty big generalization but it seems to ring true.

I also don't get why making songs about love, positivity and music is an issue all of a sudden. I don't know about the rest of you but I am glad 311 is kind of outgrowing their stoner band reputation they had. I watched the first enlarged to show detail and it was pretty obnoxious as it seemed like the band was trying way to hard to act cool. I think they have gotten to where they want to be and it is a pretty unique sound that will always stand out among other bands.

[Mindspin]

The blue album was created before 311 were popular.

Late night radio players, late night airwave invaders,
yeah we go the Force, late night radio

The day we turn to pop, the show will stop

[FreezeTime21]

The blue album was created before 311 were popular.

Late night radio players, late night airwave invaders,
yeah we go the Force, late night radio

The day we turn to pop, the show will stop

Agreed. But it doesn't change the fact that it gets the most radio time of all their albums. So I guess 311 sold out for the blue album because it is "radio friendly." Songs like Down, All Mixed up, and Don't Stay Home are too "radio friendly" and have bad structure. I can't buy that. I agree with Coast too, I don't care if it's a single or not, if I like the song thats the end of it. Some of my favorite songs are singles, and some are not. It does seem like people pull that card though, like its only cool to like songs that aren't singles. Whatever, I like em all. That's what makes them great, they've got something for all of their fans.

[Jorge]

The blue album was created before 311 were popular.

Late night radio players, late night airwave invaders,
yeah we go the Force, late night radio

The day we turn to pop, the show will stop

Agreed. But it doesn't change the fact that it gets the most radio time of all their albums. So I guess 311 sold out for the blue album because it is "radio friendly."

Dude, again, you are misunderstanding the term "radio friendly". Radio friendly doesn't necessarily mean bad. There are plenty of great radio friendly tracks. At the point in time in which self-titled came out, 311 was a youthful act writing youthful songs which happened to radio friendly. Those tracks make sense. They were young and had all the reason to write short, heavy songs that other youthful participants could relate to. Their radio friendly garbage tracks now are deemed bad (by me) because they aren't young anymore. They are all nearly middle aged men, and they are writing cheesy ass lyrics like in Daisy Cutter? At this point in their career they should be growing as musicians, not writing love songs and performing them as close as possible to their recording. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Jorge]

Coast, I'll talk in depth at a later date, because I am preparing to leave for Florida right now.

Freeze Time, you misunderstand the idea of radio friendly. Radio friendly DOESN'T mean successful. Radio friendly is a term used towards songs and bands that are easily digestible in the sense that their song structure is relatively simple (common example: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus), the lyrics are easily relatable (such as love, partying, pain, etc.), and the music is generally overshadowed by the vocals (no real long "jams", solos, or general instrumentation absent of vocals). For example, Transistor is easily 311's least radio friendly album. There are instrumental tracks, tracks that begin with guitar and gradually build into the verse over a considerable amount of time (too much for the average listener to continue paying attention to), and songs about stranger subjects. Granted, their are radio friendly tracks on the record, which by no means is wrong, but ultimately, the record really shows a mature side to 311 as a band.

That's all I have the time to talk about. I'll try to eleborate further in the week, but I might not have internet, and I will definitely be spending a tremendous time on the beach.

I don't misunderstand the term "radio friendly." And actually, yea, it kind of does go hand in hand with success. It's not like I could write a crappy song and take it to the local DJ for some airtime. In order for songs to get played over and over again on the radio, they have to be successful because ppl have to call in and request them. Now 311 still has success even though they don't get much radio time because of touring and loyal fans. But to say Uplifter is "radio friendly," and has a bunch of letdowns due to song structure is far from the truth. The music quality is there man. No jams/solos? Last time I checked there is one in It's Alright, Mix it Up, Golden SUnlight has a unexpected breakdown at the end, NES, Daisy Cutter, Two Drops, How Long, Golden Sunlight...If you don't like it, no problem, but blaming it on being too "radio friendly" and having bad structure is way off. THe Blue Album gets the most radio time, in my area anyway, of all the albums and I haven't heard you knock that one yet? If that's the case then according to you, that is their worst CD because it is too "radio friendly." Sorry man, just ain't buyin what you're sellin.

Didn't see this before my last post.

I've always said the quality is there (Uplifter), but it is completely overshadowed by the generic lyrics. The breakdown in "It's Alright" is ruined by Nick's lyrics and the volume of his voice compared to P-Nut's solo. That, to me, is characteristic of a radio friendly track. Sure, their is hints of great musicianship in the record, but ultimately it feels like they are trying to make it so it can be played on MTV, VH1, or whoever plays music videos, or who plays songs on the radio. There isn't a moment that says, I don't care if you like this or not, we thought this was fucking the coolest thing ever, so we put it out. Their attitude appears to be appeasing different groups of fans, such as new fans, die hard fans, or casual listeners.

This may seem ironic, but where is the fuck you attitude that Blue album had? Not necessarily the aggression, but general cockiness of their sound.

[FreezeTime21]

Coast, I'll talk in depth at a later date, because I am preparing to leave for Florida right now.

Freeze Time, you misunderstand the idea of radio friendly. Radio friendly DOESN'T mean successful. Radio friendly is a term used towards songs and bands that are easily digestible in the sense that their song structure is relatively simple (common example: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus), the lyrics are easily relatable (such as love, partying, pain, etc.), and the music is generally overshadowed by the vocals (no real long "jams", solos, or general instrumentation absent of vocals). For example, Transistor is easily 311's least radio friendly album. There are instrumental tracks, tracks that begin with guitar and gradually build into the verse over a considerable amount of time (too much for the average listener to continue paying attention to), and songs about stranger subjects. Granted, their are radio friendly tracks on the record, which by no means is wrong, but ultimately, the record really shows a mature side to 311 as a band.

That's all I have the time to talk about. I'll try to eleborate further in the week, but I might not have internet, and I will definitely be spending a tremendous time on the beach.

I don't misunderstand the term "radio friendly." And actually, yea, it kind of does go hand in hand with success. It's not like I could write a crappy song and take it to the local DJ for some airtime. In order for songs to get played over and over again on the radio, they have to be successful because ppl have to call in and request them. Now 311 still has success even though they don't get much radio time because of touring and loyal fans. But to say Uplifter is "radio friendly," and has a bunch of letdowns due to song structure is far from the truth. The music quality is there man. No jams/solos? Last time I checked there is one in It's Alright, Mix it Up, Golden SUnlight has a unexpected breakdown at the end, NES, Daisy Cutter, Two Drops, How Long, Golden Sunlight...If you don't like it, no problem, but blaming it on being too "radio friendly" and having bad structure is way off. THe Blue Album gets the most radio time, in my area anyway, of all the albums and I haven't heard you knock that one yet? If that's the case then according to you, that is their worst CD because it is too "radio friendly." Sorry man, just ain't buyin what you're sellin.

Didn't see this before my last post.

I've always said the quality is there (Uplifter), but it is completely overshadowed by the generic lyrics. The breakdown in "It's Alright" is ruined by Nick's lyrics and the volume of his voice compared to P-Nut's solo. That, to me, is characteristic of a radio friendly track. Sure, their is hints of great musicianship in the record, but ultimately it feels like they are trying to make it so it can be played on MTV, VH1, or whoever plays music videos, or who plays songs on the radio. There isn't a moment that says, I don't care if you like this or not, we thought this was fucking the coolest thing ever, so we put it out. Their attitude appears to be appeasing different groups of fans, such as new fans, die hard fans, or casual listeners.

This may seem ironic, but where is the fuck you attitude that Blue album had? Not necessarily the aggression, but general cockiness of their sound.

It just seems contradicting when you say that it's ok for the Blue Album to have radio friendly songs and they're cool, but the Uplifter "radio friendly" songs are not cool because they're older? I would bet every cent I own that 311 did not sit down and go, "lets see how many songs we can get on MTV with this one." They have their style and think they've stuck to it. And I think they have grown up and matured through they're albums. Someone mentioned them outgrowing their "stoner" label they had and thats apparent. I love the old stuff too, but I'm glad they outgrew that stage. And you're last sentence about appeasing to fans...What other fans are their to appease to? YOu got your opinon and thats cool. I just think you're way off on Uplifter.

[311junkee]

Jorge...you are one of the most well spoken people on here

but dude...get off the hate train for awhile

we know you don't like 311 as much anymore

[oldschool311]

311 is radio friendly now, thats a fact. Pnut already stated why the bsides for uplfiter didn't make the cut based on not being catchy and radio enough. Stop trying to argue otherwise because you sound retarded. If anything looking back in retrospect, albums like music,grass, and transistor has progressive elements to them both musically and lyrically. You can't really say that about anything released after 2000.

[FreezeTime21]

311 is radio friendly now, thats a fact. Pnut already stated why the bsides for uplfiter didn't make the cut based on not being catchy and radio enough. Stop trying to argue otherwise because you sound retarded. If anything looking back in retrospect, albums like music,grass, and transistor has progressive elements to them both musically and lyrically. You can't really say that about anything released after 2000.

You got your opinion. But the truth is the last two albums haven't gotten much time on the radio at all. While the blue album and even come original from Soundsystem get the most plays. I have heard hey you twice on the radio since the release, and DTOM about the same when it came out. So if 311 is radio friendly now, then why aren't they on the radio...at all? I hear what you're saying about music/grass/transistor, but they released singles and music videos for all those cd's as well. Could be wrong, but music being the exception there. In fact 3 for transistor (transistor, prisoner, beautiful disaster), which y'all say is the least "radio friendly." So sure their music has changed, but the term "radio friendly" doesn't really fit, mainly because they aren't on the radio. Help me out, what songs in particular would you say are catchy and radio friendly, and what older songs would you say are not?

[$lmjimy311]

like it was said earlier, radio friendly doesnt mean that they will have radio success. learn that, accept that. no one also said that they have successfully made radio friendly music. it could easily be said that they have attempted to make music that is radio friendly have failed at though.

(dont attack me by questioning my 311 fanhood, just a heads up cause i actually like 311 still)