311's big "fuck you" (a vent about new 311)

[nixhex]

Anyone else notice?

To legally own all the new tracks released today, we would all have to purchase the album more than once. Clearly many people are doing that, as evidenced by some posters on this board who have done so already. This is an obvious ploy to boost CD sales, since DTOM and Evolver were pretty weak sellers.

Ultimate "fuck you" to the devoted 311 fans: POMONA SHOW
Don't get me wrong, they sounded great last night. They've clearly honed every sound they produce with their instruments, especially the bass sound. Lots of new effects coming from Pnut that sounded fantastic to my ears.

BUT when it comes to the marketing of that show, their intentions are clear. They didn't advertise the show on their myspace page, or their official site. It wasn't available through the typical pre-sale agent that all of us usually get our tickets from. I think the only conclusion here is that the band was making effort to keep the really dedicated fans unaware of the show for as long as possible. Not coincidentally, a "311" search on ticketmaster.com came back with the Pomona show at the very top of the list. Their marketing strategy is pretty obvious at this point. Direct as many casual concert-goers considering a 311 show as possible to this show, and keep the long-time, dedicated fans in the dark for as long as possible. The fact that they were calling it a secret show is just insulting. If the show is the #1 result on ticketmaster, that is not really that big of a fucking secret. They were trying to keep the hardcore fans from spreading info about the show.

So when they played NINE songs, eight for the first time live, and interspersed their greatest hits between, I was really not surprised. This album is catered to the wider, pop-tune addicted audience. I don't mean to say this album is bad music by any stretch; their excellent musicianship most certainly is retained. But there's been an apparent shift to bouncy, pop-catchy melodies, four on the floor songs so even the most brain dead, rhythmically challenged idiot can find the beat (although some people last night wanted to prove that they STILL couldn't jump to the beat). And the older songs they did play, well those were the ones that even your non 311 fan friends would know. Amber, Down, Come Original, Beautiful Disaster. 311 knows exactly who they are playing to, and it is NOT us.

It's just patently false that 311 has in any capacity returned to what they used to be. They're middle aged, wealthy, and happy. They don't have the same drive and inspiration that was behind their old music. They don't care about saying fuck you to the naysayers anymore. Who cares about naysayers when you're all millionaires, with islands off Florida, record labels and clothing lines? They've found the formula to write songs that sound pretty good, and are pretty catchy. They've obviously taken this album as an opportunity to write some very concert friendly, high energy, sing-along type songs, all in an effort to appeal to the wider audience that they engineered to attract to the Pomona show, and get some word-of-mouth reputation started amongst a more casual base of listeners. Just look at how Nick has tidied himself up, he's dressing to impress! Does he have a J-Crew endorsement deal or what?

So, in summary, I'm pretty disheartened with 311. They've become the corporate sellouts we thought they would never be, with their crafty deals with distributors to boost CD sales. And they've betrayed the dedicated fans that like to hear all the obscure, rarer songs, by engineering their concert advertising strategy to usher in as many Amber-loving, casual concert goers with a taste in sing-along-ability rather than a taste in MUSIC. Please, let's stop pretending like 311 is the same bunch of angry, driven, inspired, innovative musicians that they were 15 years ago. It's all a business now. Music used to be their lives, now its their day job. That's all I'm sayin.

[HydroponicGrassroots]

im sick of hearing so many ppl bitching about every little thing. who cant be satisfied or happy with anything they do now. you should be fucking thanking your lucky stars 311 worked for yrs on this ablum and put as much dedication into their music and tours as they do.

like someone else said on here, people who cant appreciate the album are stuck in the 90's

311 is obviously at a whole nothing point in their lives then soundsystem or grassroots or any other album
they have wives, families, etc. obviously their inspirations and music are going to grow,change and evolve.


theres no conspiracy man,really get a life .

[jmoo861]

I'm pretty disheartened with 311. They've become the corporate sellouts we thought they would never be, with their crafty deals with distributors to boost CD sales. And they've betrayed the dedicated fans that like to hear all the obscure, rarer songs, by engineering their concert advertising strategy to usher in as many Amber-loving, casual concert goers with a taste in sing-along-ability rather than a taste in MUSIC. Please, let's stop pretending like 311 is the same bunch of angry, driven, inspired, innovative musicians that they were 15 years ago. It's all a business now. Music used to be their lives, now its their day job. That's all I'm sayin.

Welcome to 2003.

[mystoneybaby]

agreed in the sense that Music isn't 311's passion anymore .. maybe the passion of individual band members but not as a group. it's just a hobby for them as a group now.

[nixhex]

theres no conspiracy man,really get a life .

This has nothing to do with conspiracy dude. It's about MARKETING. If this sounds like a complicated conspiracy theory to you, well, my apologies for your intellect.

My point is that these dudes aren't so much dedicated to their music and fans as they are sales, and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

[HydroponicGrassroots]

i was saying theres no conspiracy about hiding the show from hardcore fans, but thinking about it more maybe there is one, because they were only playing 9 songs and they knew ppl like u would bitch n moan like u did.

as far as marketing, if they are such rich and famous millionaires why would they be more concerned about sales?

[$lmjimy311]

a. who says its THEM marketing and not the label and such
b. god forbid that not every single song at every single show is dedicated to the hardcore fans. you have to realize that a small percentage of the THOUSANDS of people there are hardcore fans.
c. if they played nothing but their "hardcore fan songs" then the others wouldn't come back. now that may seem good and dandy, but its not the smartest thing from a business perspective now is it. after all, music is their career.
d. those hardcore songs they do play, ARE dedicated to you and not the others out there, they are doing their best to cater to everyone that is at the show.
e. if they kept playing the songs that WE (the hardcoreers) enjoy, those songs too would be overplayed and annoying, so then we would bitch about that.
f. stop bitching for the reasons above, i await a rebuttal so we can have more internetz argumentz

[HydroponicGrassroots]

a. who says its THEM marketing and not the label and such
b. god forbid that not every single song at every single show is dedicated to the hardcore fans. you have to realize that a small percentage of the THOUSANDS of people there are hardcore fans.
c. if they played nothing but their "hardcore fan songs" then the others wouldn't come back. now that may seem good and dandy, but its not the smartest thing from a business perspective now is it. after all, music is their career.
d. those hardcore songs they do play, ARE dedicated to you and not the others out there, they are doing their best to cater to everyone that is at the show.
e. if they kept playing the songs that WE (the hardcoreers) enjoy, those songs too would be overplayed and annoying, so then we would bitch about that.
f. stop bitching for the reasons above, i await a rebuttal so we can have more internetz argumentz

lets fight

[nixhex]

i was saying theres no conspiracy about hiding the show from hardcore fans, but thinking about it more maybe there is one, because they were only playing 9 songs and they knew ppl like u would bitch n moan like u did.

as far as marketing, if they are such rich and famous millionaires why would they be more concerned about sales?

To make it worth their while. I'm not saying they are absurdly rich, but they're definitely worth a few mil each in assets. When someone has made pretty good money, they don't want to stop making pretty good money. They want to make more money.

[HydroponicGrassroots]

i was saying theres no conspiracy about hiding the show from hardcore fans, but thinking about it more maybe there is one, because they were only playing 9 songs and they knew ppl like u would bitch n moan like u did.

as far as marketing, if they are such rich and famous millionaires why would they be more concerned about sales?

To make it worth their while. I'm not saying they are absurdly rich, but they're definitely worth a few mil each in assets. When someone has made pretty good money, they don't want to stop making pretty good money. They want to make more money.

everyone knows artists dont make shit off cds, the moneys in touring.

[nixhex]

a. who says its THEM marketing and not the label and such
b. god forbid that not every single song at every single show is dedicated to the hardcore fans. you have to realize that a small percentage of the THOUSANDS of people there are hardcore fans.
c. if they played nothing but their "hardcore fan songs" then the others wouldn't come back. now that may seem good and dandy, but its not the smartest thing from a business perspective now is it. after all, music is their career.
d. those hardcore songs they do play, ARE dedicated to you and not the others out there, they are doing their best to cater to everyone that is at the show.
e. if they kept playing the songs that WE (the hardcoreers) enjoy, those songs too would be overplayed and annoying, so then we would bitch about that.
f. stop bitching for the reasons above, i await a rebuttal so we can have more internetz argumentz

Haha nice jimmy.

You're totally right in points b, c, and d. What annoys me is the complete lack of awareness by many fans that they are now more than ever engineering their sound and shows to cater to the widest audience possible. What I'm saying about their marketing and social engineering for the shows is not just a "theory," that's just what marketing is for. Apparently most people don't know too much about business or economics though, and it's tough to get through to them. Thx for being reasonable jimmy. We're on the same side here haha

[nixhex]

i was saying theres no conspiracy about hiding the show from hardcore fans, but thinking about it more maybe there is one, because they were only playing 9 songs and they knew ppl like u would bitch n moan like u did.

as far as marketing, if they are such rich and famous millionaires why would they be more concerned about sales?

To make it worth their while. I'm not saying they are absurdly rich, but they're definitely worth a few mil each in assets. When someone has made pretty good money, they don't want to stop making pretty good money. They want to make more money.

everyone knows artists dont make shit off cds, the moneys in touring.

And they're making more money from touring by attracting a wider audience with their new music. They're doing that with a pop-ier sound, and engineering marketing for shows to attract the wider base, and thus make more money. Can you think a little further ahead before you make a really flaccid point?

[$lmjimy311]

true, im gonna get my econ degree by 2011 woo!

[nixhex]

Wait, you're an econ major too? haha

[$lmjimy311]

i just picked it up (well waiting to find out if i got into it)

[nixhex]

well thats a little preemptive there, buddy. haha. I'm gonna do my last year ('10-'11) at London School of Economics. That's gonna be the shiiit.

[$lmjimy311]

oh shit, thats fuckin baller. im pretty sure ill get in, and if i dont, i technically still have another year at nc state, im trying to stay for an extra year cause im not ready to leave college yet

[KyleRayner]

i just graduated with my degree in econ. i would STRONGLY recommend doing something else unless you are planning on going to econ grad school, business/law school or are just supplementing another major. trust me, it is fucking worthless on its own. everything you can do business majors can do better and employers know this.

[nixhex]

i just graduated with my degree in econ. i would STRONGLY recommend doing something else unless you are planning on going to econ grad school, business/law school or are just supplementing another major. trust me, it is fucking worthless on its own. everything you can do business majors can do better and employers know this.

For sure. I'm half done with a business law minor, and I've taken accounting classes. I'm strongly considering b-school or law school. Ultimately though, its the connections and experience that matter more than anything. It's at least as much who you know as what you know. Here at USC (so cal), there's no shortage of connected mofos.

[$lmjimy311]

im going to law school