Lyric analysis (religion in 311)

[oldschool311]

without god, all acts of morals,grace,kindness,honesty,generosity, ect are empty and hold no merit.

That's just ridiculous. So you're saying that there is no point in being decent to others without the expectation of being rewarded in the afterlife?

You missed the point of my statement or jumped to the wrong conclusion. Let me explain, basically we can acknowledge there is a such thing as good and bad. now if what is considered to be good or bad is determined by only man within one particular culture or society what have you, then consequently this law of right and wrong only extends from that individual. hence, like most of you i assume you believe that cultures reflect their own values of morals and the people subject to them except it. i don't follow suit on that. i don't think the idea of right and wrong comes from man. if it does, then it is indeed empty because it only reflects the individual or individuals involved in creating such a system. therefore, how can anyone really be considered wrong for disagreeing or violating it. this brings you to my original statement that you commented on. if you do nice things in order to be rewarded then where is the reward in that? an act of kindness is only true when it is done in a self-less manner, absent from the pride of the individual. what is right does not come from man, but from god. if it came from just man than it can't be anymore empty and self serving. you were stating that i was saying to only be nice for the reason of going to heaven, which is false(you don't go to heaven for just being nice). your nice because you know that it is right, and by right i mean it extends beyond the imperfect hands of man. i love ontological discussions.

[Vibe Merchant]

I've been waiting for one of these to start. Hope this discussion lasts.

I don't believe there is a "you're wrong or right because it is a universal human kind code from the beginning of time". It all has to do with survival. You go out and kill others, you are more likely to be killed as well. Through many years that was ingrained into the mind. If you do this one thing, you usually get a negative out come that is not beneficial to you and/or the clan. So you continually learn to not commit that act and it was picked up in civilizations to maintain order and survival of the civilization. Same with creating a god(s) or religion. First it was used to explain the unknown, then used to control people.

[wbrycew]

There is no such thing as right or wrong. It's purely subjective. Any illusion of right or wrong that you have is something you inherited from your parents/schooling/culture/religion/peers.

If it can't be observed objectively and scientifically, than it doesn't exist. That goes for everything in our universe.

If you don't believe me, consider the fact the the Nazis felt like what they were doing was the right thing to do. Our culture clearly doesn't agree. It's all subjective and opinionated.

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values" by Robert Pirsig is a good read that touches on this subject heavily.

I see right and wrong in this sense: what benefits both myself and other humans, and what doesn't. Morals are nonsense. I don't need god to figure this out.

[wbrycew]

The more you study physics and the universe, the more evident is that there is a greater order and design to it all.

This is not true. Commonly accepted science doesn't have theories about a designed universe in any way. There's plenty of pseudoscientific theories about it, if that's what you mean (but pseudoscience is not science at all). The universe follows simple rules and forces that hold it together and remain consistent throughout. This can be perceived as design, but is not proof of design by any means.

[wbrycew]

the fact that we are alive is enough evidence for me that there is a god.

This is nonsense. You're alive because your parents reproduced. What does your statement even mean?

this very existence and our inability to understand it shows the shear complexity that intertwines it.

It sure is complex, and we learn more every day. We've come to have a pretty solid understanding of the way things work. The universe isn't exactly inexplicable anymore. The way knowledge continues to grow exponentially will help us to understand almost everything there is to understand eventually.

you might not believe, but to be so convinced otherwise seems to be a dreary and hollow means to an end.

I'm a happy person. I'm content in knowing that I have a place and purpose in the ecosystem. Civilization and culture try to hide it, but we're just another animal roaming the earth. We're just fortunate enough to be the big-brained animal.

without god, all acts of morals,grace,kindness,honesty,generosity, ect are empty and hold no merit.

Bull. These are all subjective values. What you think is kindness or honesty, somebody else can disagree with. And there will always be people that will disagree.

i don't believe all is meaningless survival.

Well, it is more or less. Whether or not you apply meaning to it is up to you, but we're all here just to survive and reproduce.

[oldschool311]

i don't believe everything is just survival and subjective.
i find it interesting how so-called primitive man had the concept of god and the eternal, and felt the need to make sacrifices ect...
are you saying that every religious prophet on all levels were liars...? that is a bold statement to make.

[Station]

are you saying that every religious prophet on all levels were liars...? that is a bold statement to make.

I'm sure he is not saying that. Prophets and evangelists can certainly believe themselves and not purposely mislead people, though I'm sure some of them do (mislead purposely).

[KyleRayner]

remember jerry, its not a lie...if you believe it

[oldschool311]

evangelists are creepy.

[Nate]

I'm not against the idea of 'something greater,' but I can assure with 100% that not one person on this planet has got it right. What it boils down to is you're not going to see your loved ones when you die. You become part of the Earth and that's it. I find it pretty selfish that any of you feel that you deserve anymore than what we are given in this life. And that's what make people believe in whatever bullshit God they believe in.

[Nate]

evangelists are creepy.

how are you any different? At least they are passionate.

[$nipe]

I'm not against the idea of 'something greater,' but I can assure with 100% that not one person on this planet has got it right. What it boils down to is you're not going to see your loved ones when you die. You become part of the Earth and that's it. I find it pretty selfish that any of you feel that you deserve anymore than what we are given in this life. And that's what make people believe in whatever bullshit God they believe in.

I'm a christian, but I like the way you think. Made me give you respect for once.

[Jordan311]

IT'S A FUCKING ILLUSION!!!!!!!!


Later

[oldschool311]

well.....hmmm....some really strong opinions here. i'm a christian but i'm not part of a church or any specific denomination. i smoke pot. haha

[Nate]

well.....hmmm....some really strong opinions here. i'm a christian but i'm not part of a church or any specific denomination. i smoke pot. haha

so you're a loser?

[Element]

well.....hmmm....some really strong opinions here. i'm a christian but i'm not part of a church or any specific denomination. i smoke pot. haha

9.5

[311junkee]

"we are rumbling through this cursed universe where death is birth, think not but what your manifest is worth"

[wbrycew]

are you saying that every religious prophet on all levels were liars...? that is a bold statement to make.

I'm sure he is not saying that. Prophets and evangelists can certainly believe themselves and not purposely mislead people, though I'm sure some of them do (mislead purposely).

Yeah, Station is right. I definitely wasn't saying that at all. And I agree with Station that some prophets are self-deluded and fully believe what they preach (probably Jesus/Muhammad etc), whereas others are just outright full of it and they know it (L Ron Hubbard).

L Ron is just a sci-fi writer. In a 1981 issue of Reader's Digest, L. Ron Hubbard was quoted as saying:
"Writing a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

He said that about 30 years after starting Scientology. He knows it's bull.

[$lmjimy311]

are you saying that every religious prophet on all levels were liars...? that is a bold statement to make.

I'm sure he is not saying that. Prophets and evangelists can certainly believe themselves and not purposely mislead people, though I'm sure some of them do (mislead purposely).

Yeah, Station is right. I definitely wasn't saying that at all. And I agree with Station that some prophets are self-deluded and fully believe what they preach (probably Jesus/Muhammad etc), whereas others are just outright full of it and they know it (L Ron Hubbard).

L Ron is just a sci-fi writer. In a 1981 issue of Reader's Digest, L. Ron Hubbard was quoted as saying:
"Writing a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

He said that about 30 years after starting Scientology. He knows it's bull.

it still shocks me that so many people are part of this cult...no thanks to this guy

[$lmjimy311]

First one from ytmnd.com
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Second one also from ytmnd.com
http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;